GP4000 & Coiltek Salt Coils?

Anyone used them together when towed behind a quad on a salt lake?

I have the urge to use a quad to tow a large coiltek salt coil across WA's salt lakes in search of gold patches.

Before I spend the almost $10K I've budgeted for this project - I was hoping to get advice..about a few issues.

For reasons explained eslewhere I've elected NOT to buy the GP4500 but instead to hire (or buy new) a 4000 model and a quad.

I realise that it is important not to travel too fast (above walking speed) say 3 - 4 mph at the most.

1. Are their any specific brands / models of quads more suited to this crawling pace?

2. Is It a good idea to get a lighter weight 2wd quad so as not to break thru the salt crust on lakes OR is it better to get the heavier 4wd quad for times when you DO and need the extra traction to get back out again?

3. Hondas don't seem to have a low range selection for crawling speed - while Yamaha and Suzuki do - would they be a better choice than the more readily available & cheaper second hand Honda's for this useage?

4. While just towing the large 42 inch salt coil is moving it over the ground, would it be more effective IF it was also mounted under it's trolley to say a 12 v wiper washer engine and mechanism so that it also swept side to side as well?
5. If I purchase another large coiltek coil (i.e. not a salt coil) - for use on the gibba plains, will it be effective for finding patches when towed behind the quad in country other than salt lakes that will permit such use?

6. Why would a minelabs dealer have advised me that I didn't need a special coiltek salt coil with the Minelabs 4000 or 4500 detector...would it be because:-
a ) the new 4000 & 4500 detectors have settings than can punch thru highly mineralised salt lake crust without a special salt coil,
or
b ) as a "nugget finder coil dealer" they don't have a comparable special "salt lake coil" to the coiltek one, to sell to me,
or
c ) The dealer doesn't have the experience detecting on salt lakes and with quad towed coils etc to be able to advise me adequately for my particular quest?

Sorry for the 1001 questions, but I KNOW that others have done this - maybe with or without success in the past - i am just trying hard to get it right first time round by benefiting from others experience wherever possible.

I figure at my age and state of health, walking around all day with a detector just aint going to happen - I'm definitely more ya ride a quad equipped with dual batterys & an engel fridge all day, sipping a coldie under the shade of a beach umbrella, while towing a large coil behind me and marking any possible targets with a gps and 3/8th steel rod stakes & flagging tape, to come back at night and dig when it's cool.

I've spent years ploughing paddocks etc on a ol grey fergie tea 20 tractor - the idea of gridding out 10 acres of ground and covering it all on a quad at snail pace doesnt phase me at all - marking any signals asI go on the GPS and physically with a steel 3/8 rod peg & flagging tape.

I guess when it's cool - I will go back and dig each signal with a small coil probably at night.

Sure - I will mooch around on foot on the odd productive looking gully or hill side - but I'd prefer to be covering a lot of ground on the quad for my team members (2 lads and daughter / wife) to investigate further.

Cheers

Hi L/E,

Just a couple of thoughts after reading your (interesting, it has to be said) proposal.

1. Honda's can definitely go slow... Have ridden my friend's 600CC Honda ATV quad a number of times and it'll crawl along nicely. Huge tyres too, and with low pressure in them, will go anywhere.

2. Towing a big coil has (at least, I read) some legal implications in accordance with fossicking rules since it is no longer hand-held, and becomes 'machinery'. I guess this one is open to interpretation to some extent

3. You'd maybe need a coil switch or another detector too. When riding round, if you heard a slight undulation in the threshold due to a target on the edge of the coil, say, you'd need to hop off the quad and use a smaller coil to pinpoint it better before marking/flagging it, or it'd be lots of forwards/backwards on the quad trying to find out where the target was. If you ran over a patch you might only need to mark one flag anyway, and work around it, gridding carefully.

Good luck!

Regards,
Rob

Thanks Rob,

Good points - & taken on board.

I'm still new at this andhave my miners right etc - I did read about the 20 kilos limit on samples per day etc - and I don't know for sure - maybe there is something about hand tools only - does anyone know for sure about WA when it comes to using a quad and salt coil?

Ex - if i ride a quad and wave the detector by hand out the side to cover the fround - thats using a hand tool, similarly if I drag a hand trolley with coil across a lake thats also a hand tool, but If I use the quad to drag the trolley with the salt coil thats machinery?

Anyone have any definitive advice about these "rules" where theres a WRITTEN interpretation by Dept Mines as to what one can and canot do with a detector?

My (limited) understanding was that you cannot undertake "mining" activities where you scrapoe away the surface of a patch to detect deeper etc unless you take out a tenement and do the whole environmental restoration job replacing the overburden and re seeding etc afterwards...

I can't see that dragging a coil behind a bike is disturbing the ground in any machinery sense of the word - but I'm not a mining inspector so what would I know.

Some of these "rules" come down to legal precedents where court cases have established that under "definitions" within the legislation, some things are and some things are NOT allowed.

It would be noce if we could get some informed comment about this issue....no point investing big $ into something thats illegal (in this state if not others).

Isn't there a guy shane from Dept Mines in WA that can advise about such things, I seem to recall reading a post or two fromhim in the past about such matters..

I noticed an advert recently for a mining lease in WA with machinery (loader, dry blower etc) for sale - does one have to buy such a lease or alternately peg a lease and get a mining tenement granted -- just to be able to drag a coil behind your quad on our salt lakes?

The more I look into this prospecting caper - the more i come to think maybe it's all "too hard" to be bothered.

Prospecting seems to be a LOT like fishing, with many paralells - take the recreational fishing closure proposed by our Minister for Fisheries for 4 or 5 months over the summer - just plain crazy.
Never mind all the Charter Licenses Fisheries charge a fortune for, IMHO Charter ops should launch a class action lawsuit against the minister - for loss of earnings as a result of his arbitrary (i.e. with no scientific research to back them up) decisions that affect many thousands of West Australians.

Am I wrong, or is gold prospecting, headed down the same dead end path?

Cheers

For anyone interested / future reference etc



I contacted WA's Dept of Industry & Resources and spoke wth WA's Perth Mining Registrar, (Andrew Ashcroft) regarding the use of quads in WA for gold detecting.

His interpretation was:- (summarised in my words below)

Hand Tools refers to the use of machnery that disturbes the ground in a mining activity.

The hand tools requirement was put into legislation to stop the past use of front end loaders etc from scraping away 6 inches or so of soil to allow detectors to cover new ground below that already detected. This activity largely wasn't obeying the environmental requiremens of rehabilitating the ground after the activity by returning the overburden and re - seeding etc.

The use of "Quads" to get too and from an area of subsequent detecting activity on foot is NOT considered in breach of the conditions of a miners right, the only requirement being not to remove more than 20 kilos per day of samples and to only use hand tools in removing those samples.

As to the use of a quad bike to Tow a larger coil on a trolley over flat ground or salt lakes....again - BECAUSE the rubber tyred quad and rubber tyred trolley aren't designed to substantially alter or disturb the soil surface - then the Mining Warden couldn't see any reason WHY it should not be considered an acceptable activity within the context & spirit of the legislation with regard to the "use of hand tools".

It is "preferred" that any marking out of the ground for chaining / gridding an area be done in as sympathetic to the environment a manner as possible - i.e. towing a short length of heavy chain to leave a scratch mark as to where has already been covered is preferable to using a deep ripper on a tractor for e.g.

Using a GPS to do the same without leaving any trace except tyre prints is preferrable even more.

Marking out lines / corners with pegs and flagging tape that is removed afterwards is prefferable to disturbing the ground.

Areas or patches found by towing a big coil thus marked, should be returned too with hand tools (pick) for digging and holes filled in and no refuse left behind.

Common sense in staying off salt lakes unless toyally dry enough, so as not to break thru the surface crust with quads, was another environmental aspect to consider.

Just ONE reason for caution by the DOIR about declaring quads "off limits" is that they could well be charged if they did so, under federal disabled laws, for discriminating againsrt the diisabled from being able to participate in the actibvity if the use of quads were outlawed.

There were other reasons such as detectorists being able to use quads tyre tracks to follow & find their way back to their vehicle etc in preventing expensive air and land search & rescue ops and so on. The use of a Quad allows detectorists to carry the added weight of rescue devices like EPIRBS, Sat Phones, Hand held 2 ways, GPS units & additonal water etc that SHOULD / COULD help to avoid / prevent loss of life and expensive search / rescue operations.

The Dept is apparently loath to declare Quads off limits for a LOT of good reasons but it depends on detectorists using good common sense and land stewardship practices, in the use of the quads to stay onside!

Using the salt lakes as a race track for quads by prospectors kids after hours and so on resulting in unsightly tracks / skids & generally tearing them up and so on, WILL lead to the loss of the privelege of using quads with detecting / fossicking / prospecting in future of it becomes a problem other departments like DEC (CALM) EPA staff bring to the attention of DOIR compliance staff.

Basically it is up to us how this ends up.

Cheers